Problem using trn & INN 2.3.1

Patrick Vervoorn vervoorn at
Wed Dec 6 16:13:37 UTC 2000

On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, System Operatour wrote:

> I mean, what *is* the point?  Why do you need all the information from
> all the tens or hundreds of thousands of articles in such a froup,
> every time you enter it?  Rrrgh.  My brane hertz.  And if you're
> pulling all the headers, why not ask for all of them at once rather
> than this back-and-forth that I simply don't understand at all.  I
> mean, you add latency for every time you ask for a partial range, and
> I've optimised my swerver that returning the whole range in one
> response is a trivial no-op, while if you ask for bits and pieces, I'm
> assuming you're a Real Reader with a Real Reason to just want part of
> the data, and I'll do the extra work to make sure that data is correct
> even if it kills me...  grumble...

I have no idea what the point is, but I did forward your e-mail to the
trn-users mailinglist. I think trn tries to be nice by NOT getting the
entire overview in one fell swoop, but instead requesting it in small,
doable chunks, in order not to (from THEIR viewpoint) overload the

But then, I didn't design trn, so I don't know what their assumptions are.

But what you're saying is that instead of doing:

:: <215 Newsgroups in form "group high low flags".
:: <alt.chello.binaries 0001147847 0000806723 y
:: >XOVER 806723-807042
:: <224 data follows
:: >XOVER 807043-807362
:: <224 data follows
:: >XOVER 807363-807962
:: <224 data follows
:: >XOVER 807963-808642

trn could just as easily do

XOVER 806723-1147847

and that would be a very cheap operation on /your/ INN based newsserver?
This would also be a very cheap operation on /any/ INN based newsserver?
Would it also be a very cheap operation on ANY newsserver?

> A Real Newsreader[tm] will keep track of the last article you read in

Do you have some names of "Real Newsreaders [tm]" that will work in VT100
mode on a Linux machine? I'm using trn4-test74, and by all my definitions
it is a Real Newsreader[tm]. ;)

> the froup, and only get information from that point forward. That will
> usually be enough to get past the gap in numbering that you're seeing,
> until you go on holiday for a week or something, but still.  Geez.  I
> mean, really.

It does, but in this case the latest article I read, according to the
.newsrc trn keeps around is about nr. 400.000. So I indeed want to get the
entire newsgroup.

So I _think_ (but am not sure) that trn is being a lot smarter in
newsgroups that I do not lag in that much.

> lot more if it weren't for these poorly-designed reader clients.  Like
> Outhouse Distress, too.  Rrrg.  I feel a rant coming on.  Rrrrr.

I ain't using Outhouse Distress, but an oldie out of the 'golden' days of
UseNet, being maintained to new standards:  trn4-test74. I always thought
it behaved pretty nicely, but it seems it doesn't... Or it behaves just
diffrently than a 'run-off-the-mill' newsreader like the crap built into
things like Netscape of Microsoft Internet Exploder?

Anyhow, if you really want to do something about it, you could maybe join
the trn users list yourself (trn-users at, but I will
also try to forward the comments from either lists to the other.

It looks like there isn't much if any communication between the
communities of client-builders, and server-builders, as far as news/NNTP
is concerned?


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