[Kea-users] Struggling with "failed to select a subnet for incoming packet" - Kea 3.0.3

Doug Freed dwfreed at isc.org
Thu Apr 9 17:10:40 UTC 2026


On 4/9/26 03:39, Darren Ankney wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> 
> Could you attach the pcap of the client traffic?  Nothing is jumping
> out from the included log messages.  It would be ideal if the pcap
> included both unsuccessful renewal and successful DORA exchanges.
> 
> Thank you,
> Darren Ankney
> 
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2026 at 4:04 PM Tim Harman via Kea-users
> <kea-users at lists.isc.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a VyOS user and have recently moved from VyOS 1.4.4 to VyOS 1.5.0.
>> This means a migration from ISC DHCP to Kea DHCP.
>> And since moving to Kea, I've been struggling with DHCP renewals not
>> working properly.  It seems that no Unicast DHCP renewal requests work,
>> the are always NAK'd as follows:
>>
>> Apr 09 01:18:09 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 01:18:09.326 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 6c:79:b8:ec:13:49], cid=[no info], tid=0x9eb95cf4: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.152, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 01:26:03 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 01:26:03.573 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 50:32:37:c4:fa:8c], cid=[01:50:32:37:c4:fa:8c],
>> tid=0xd53ecc4e: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.101, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 01:37:53 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 01:37:52.998 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 bc:35:1e:26:53:38], cid=[no info], tid=0x60c4b446: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.182, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 01:46:25 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 01:46:25.880 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 70:a7:41:c1:4b:fa], cid=[no info], tid=0x225f7ce0: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.4, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 01:46:39 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 01:46:39.880 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 78:11:dc:70:b9:4d], cid=[01:78:11:dc:70:b9:4d],
>> tid=0xe072c478: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.11, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 02:01:21 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 02:01:21.951 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 54:60:09:e0:e3:40], cid=[no info], tid=0x12690ba5: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.115, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 02:01:24 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 02:01:24.981 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 54:60:09:e0:e3:40], cid=[no info], tid=0x12690ba5: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.115, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 03:02:13 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 03:02:13.422 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 0c:b2:b7:5c:ad:84], cid=[no info], tid=0x16ae3e33: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.150, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 03:12:04 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 03:12:04.168 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 f0:2f:4b:39:11:ee], cid=[01:f0:2f:4b:39:11:ee],
>> tid=0x11d6a0ef: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.188, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 03:16:00 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 03:16:00.884 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 54:e0:19:67:41:80], cid=[no info], tid=0xc84563d9: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.29, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 03:32:18 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 03:32:18.740 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 a0:c9:a0:08:93:3e], cid=[01:a0:c9:a0:08:93:3e],
>> tid=0x621e3b6e: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.16, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 03:48:17 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 03:48:17.413 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 24:6f:28:1b:5d:c8], cid=[01:24:6f:28:1b:5d:c8],
>> tid=0x2c0cc177: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.166, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 05:10:15 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 05:10:15.312 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 f0:5c:77:bc:ac:51], cid=[01:f0:5c:77:bc:ac:51],
>> tid=0x18582fd0: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.153, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 05:27:07 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 05:27:07.214 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 02:77:0f:6d:f3:b9], cid=[01:02:77:0f:6d:f3:b9],
>> tid=0x36b8208c: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.186, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 05:33:12 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 05:33:12.914 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 c6:df:8f:ca:f9:27], cid=[01:c6:df:8f:ca:f9:27], tid=0x915835c:
>> failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.197, type
>> DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 05:42:49 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 05:42:49.412 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 a8:ca:77:8b:60:48],
>> cid=[ff:77:8b:60:48:00:01:00:01:2d:3a:e0:bd:a8:ca:77:8b:60:48],
>> tid=0x7c422899: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.185, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 05:45:43 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 05:45:43.088 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 5e:55:58:1c:8f:d0], cid=[01:5e:55:58:1c:8f:d0],
>> tid=0xa60ac243: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.187, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 06:04:22 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 06:04:22.812 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 84:0d:8e:63:de:8e], cid=[no info], tid=0xb55fe8da: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.70, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 06:31:57 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 06:31:57.110 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 d4:36:39:a9:ea:46], cid=[01:d4:36:39:a9:ea:46],
>> tid=0x78d4c7bd: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.13, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 07:01:42 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 07:01:42.641 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835658786496] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 e4:2f:37:be:a0:17], cid=[01:e4:2f:37:be:a0:17],
>> tid=0x21fdeb8b: failed to select a subnet for incoming packet, src
>> 192.168.0.157, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 07:08:46 kea-dhcp4[208553]: 2026-04-09 07:08:46.920 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/208553.139835650393792] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 9c:76:13:19:59:62], cid=[no info], tid=0x502959d8: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.175, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.480 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xf162a59f: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.183, type DHCPREQUEST
>>
>>
>> This makes the clients fall back to a standard broadcast DHCP Request,
>> which then works just fine:
>>
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.480 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_RECEIVED
>> [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xf162a59f: DHCPREQUEST
>> (type 3) received from 192.168.0.183 to 192.168.0.1 on interface eth1
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.480 ERROR
>> [kea-dhcp4.bad-packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_NAK_0001
>> [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xf162a59f: failed to
>> select a subnet for incoming packet, src 192.168.0.183, type DHCPREQUEST
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.480 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_SEND [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xf162a59f: trying to send packet
>> DHCPNAK (type 6) from 192.168.0.1:67 to 192.168.0.183:68 on interface
>> eth1
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.891 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.dhcp4/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_QUERY_LABEL received
>> query: [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xe7001ba3
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.891 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_RECEIVED
>> [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xe7001ba3:
>> DHCPDISCOVER (type 1) received from 0.0.0.0 to 255.255.255.255 on
>> interface eth1
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.892 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.leases/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_LEASE_OFFER [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xe7001ba3: lease 192.168.0.183
>> will be offered
>> Apr 09 07:41:41 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:41:41.892 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_SEND [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0xe7001ba3: trying to send packet
>> DHCPOFFER (type 2) from 192.168.0.1:67 to 192.168.0.183:68 on interface
>> eth1
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.459 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.dhcp4/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_QUERY_LABEL received
>> query: [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.459 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_RECEIVED
>> [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75:
>> DHCPDISCOVER (type 1) received from 0.0.0.0 to 255.255.255.255 on
>> interface eth1
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.460 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.leases/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_LEASE_OFFER [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75: lease 192.168.0.183
>> will be offered
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.460 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_SEND [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75: trying to send packet
>> DHCPOFFER (type 2) from 192.168.0.1:67 to 192.168.0.183:68 on interface
>> eth1
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.509 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.dhcp4/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_QUERY_LABEL received
>> query: [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.509 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_RECEIVED
>> [hwtype=1 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75: DHCPREQUEST
>> (type 3) received from 0.0.0.0 to 255.255.255.255 on interface eth1
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.510 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.leases/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_LEASE_ALLOC [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75: lease 192.168.0.183
>> has been allocated for 86400 seconds
>> Apr 09 07:42:00 kea-dhcp4[231988]: 2026-04-09 07:42:00.511 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.packets/231988.140669784841216] DHCP4_PACKET_SEND [hwtype=1
>> 78:20:a5:62:a6:c8], cid=[no info], tid=0x13867c75: trying to send packet
>> DHCPACK (type 5) from 192.168.0.1:67 to 192.168.0.183:68 on interface
>> eth1
>>
>> The device (router) doing DHCP is pretty simple, WAN interface (eth0)
>> and LAN interface (eth1)
>>
>> tim at ferrari:~$ ip addr show eth1
>> 3: eth1: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc cake state UP
>> group default qlen 1000
>>       link/ether 54:1e:56:66:66:66 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff permaddr
>> de:dd:38:7c:da:e9
>>       altname enp0s19
>>       altname ens19
>>       inet 192.168.0.1/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth1
>>          valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
>>       inet6 2406:5a00:1ae0:9401::1/64 scope global
>>          valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
>>       inet6 fe80::561e:56ff:fe66:6666/64 scope link
>>          valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
>>
>> My configuration is as follows:
>>
>> {
>>       "Dhcp4": {
>>           "interfaces-config": {
>>               "interfaces": [ "eth1" ],
>>               "dhcp-socket-type": "raw",
>>               "service-sockets-max-retries": 60,
>>               "service-sockets-retry-wait-time": 5000
>>           },
>>           "control-socket": {
>>               "socket-type": "unix",
>>               "socket-name": "/var/run/kea/dhcp4-ctrl-socket"
>>           },
>>           "lease-database": {
>>               "type": "memfile",
>>               "persist": true,
>>               "name": "/config/dhcp/dhcp4-leases.csv"
>>           },
>>           "multi-threading": {
>>               "enable-multi-threading": false
>>           },
>>           "option-def": [
>>               {
>>                   "name": "wpad-url",
>>                   "code": 252,
>>                   "type": "string"
>>               },
>>               {
>>                   "name": "unifi-controller",
>>                   "code": 1,
>>                   "type": "ipv4-address",
>>                   "space": "ubnt"
>>               }
>>           ],
>>           "hooks-libraries": [
>>               {
>>                   "library":
>> "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/kea/hooks/libdhcp_lease_cmds.so",
>>                   "parameters": {}
>>               }
>>           ],
>>           "shared-networks": [
>>       {
>>           "name": "XXLAN",
>>           "authoritative": true,
>>           "subnet4": [
>>               {
>>                   "subnet": "192.168.0.0/24",
>>                   "id": 1,
>>                   "interface": "eth1",
>>                   "user-context": {
>>                       "enable-ping-check": false
>>                   },
>>                   "option-data": [
>>                       {
>>                           "name": "domain-name-servers",
>>                           "data": "192.168.0.5"
>>                       },
>>                       {
>>                           "name": "domain-name",
>>                           "data": "X.com"
>>                       },
>>                       {
>>                           "name": "domain-search",
>>                           "data": "X.com"
>>                       },
>>                       {
>>                           "name": "ntp-servers",
>>                           "data": "192.168.0.1"
>>                       },
>>                       {
>>                           "name": "routers",
>>                           "data": "192.168.0.1"
>>                       }
>>                   ],
>>                   "valid-lifetime": 86400,
>>                   "max-valid-lifetime": 86400,
>>                   "pools": [
>>                       {
>>                           "pool": "192.168.0.150 - 192.168.0.240"
>>                       }
>>                   ],
>>                   "reservations": [
>>                       {
>>                           "hostname": "X",
>>                           "hw-address": "XX:76:6f:41:XX:XX",
>>                           "ip-address": "192.168.0.113"
>>                       },
>>                       {
>>                           "hostname": "XX",
>>                           "hw-address": "50:32:37:c4:XX:XX",
>>                           "ip-address": "192.168.0.101"
>>                       },
>>                       {
>>                           "hostname": "XX-tracker",
>>                           "hw-address": "24:0a:c4:58:XX:XX",
>>                           "ip-address": "192.168.0.72"
>>                       },
>>                   ]
>>               }
>>           ],
>>           "user-context": {
>>               "enable-ping-check": false
>>           }
>>       }
>> ]
>>       }
>> }
>>
>>
>>
>> I do have a large number of reservations that I've not included, but the
>> same error occurs regardless of if the client is one with a static
>> reservation or not.
>>
>> I have tried disabling threading (as you can see in the config, VyOS
>> generates config that enables it by default) but this hasn't helped
>> either.
>>
>> I've got packet captures that show pretty clearly the packets are
>> normal, correct unicast packets, though happy to share my tcpdump if
>> that'd help.
>>
>> Kea Details:
>>
>> tim at ferrari:~$ /usr/sbin/kea-dhcp4 -V
>> 3.0.3-git (3.0.3-git (vyos deb))
>> premium: no
>> linked with:
>> - log4cplus 2.0.8
>> - OpenSSL 3.0.18 30 Sep 2025
>> lease backends:
>> - Memfile backend 3.0
>>
>> tim at ferrari:~$ /usr/sbin/kea-dhcp4 -t /var/run/kea/kea-dhcp4.conf
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.531 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.hooks/232752.140046183791616]
>> HOOKS_LIBRARY_CLOSED hooks library
>> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/kea/hooks/libdhcp_lease_cmds.so successfully
>> closed
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.531 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.dhcpsrv/232752.140046183791616]
>> DHCPSRV_CFGMGR_NEW_SUBNET4 a new subnet has been added to configuration:
>> 192.168.0.0/24 with params: valid-lifetime=86400
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.dhcpsrv/232752.140046183791616]
>> DHCPSRV_CFGMGR_SOCKET_TYPE_SELECT using socket type raw
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.dhcpsrv/232752.140046183791616]
>> DHCPSRV_CFGMGR_SOCKET_TYPE_SELECT using socket type raw
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.dhcpsrv/232752.140046183791616]
>> DHCPSRV_CFGMGR_ADD_IFACE listening on interface eth1
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.dhcpsrv/232752.140046183791616]
>> DHCPSRV_LEASE_MGR_BACKENDS_REGISTERED the following lease backend types
>> are available: memfile
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.hosts/232752.140046183791616]
>> HOSTS_BACKENDS_REGISTERED the following host backend types are
>> available:
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO  [kea-dhcp4.dhcpsrv/232752.140046183791616]
>> DHCPSRV_FORENSIC_BACKENDS_REGISTERED the following forensic backend
>> types are available:
>> 2026-04-09 07:59:04.533 INFO
>> [kea-dhcp4.database/232752.140046183791616] CONFIG_BACKENDS_REGISTERED
>> the following config backend types are available:
>>
>>
>> Happy to provide anymore details that might be relevant/helpful.
>> I'm _thinking_ I should log a bug as it seems to be that this should
>> work - all the debugging/reading I've done tells me this is a simple
>> config and it should have no problems, but something obviously is up.
>>
>> Any help/suggestions/advice would be appreciated, thank you very much!
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information.
>>
>> To unsubscribe visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/kea-users.
>> Kea-users at lists.isc.org

It would also be good to crank the logging up to DEBUG level 99 during 
the pcap.  There's a lot of useful debug logging around subnet selection 
that would likely provide insight here.

-Doug


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